Monday, March 15, 2010

Style Vs. Style: Kickboxing and Taekwondo – UPDATED

Via, an interesting style matchup.

What can we learn from KB vs TKD?

While we should (but won’t) all agree that the style debates are old and irrelevant, I’d like to take a different tack: what can we learn from this? I’m going to ask that you add your thoughts into the comments, and I’ll try to summarize in this post in a few days. Wide open…


My comments:

Thanks for the comments on this one. I thought it was interesting in that the TKD guy seemed to be in more control. Specific thoughts:

1) Fried chicken tub hats with steam don't really help your fighting ability, but do make for an interesting entrance.

2) The KB fighter was at a definite disadvantage on the outside. It would have been to his benefit to close, move laterally, and punch more effectively, as opposed to clinching, which moves them back to the kicking range on breaks. Bad tactics.

3) KB boy also tried to match kicks with TKD Timmy (not sure of his name, but this works). Not smart.

4) The groin can be a very, very good target against a high kicker. So can the legs. The best tactic against a high kicker is to target the lower body, which makes the kicks come way down quick, or the testes will be moved up into the trunk. I actually thought leg kicks must have been against the rules until both fighters started using them at roughly 2:00. Why wait?

5) High kicks can be extremely effective, but must be used sparingly. Neither fighter developed a pattern of techniques that created openings. They are also risky. Several high kick misses put TKD Timmy on his hands and knees and back, and as Worg says, you go there on the street, you're F***ed. True!

6) Both fighters had their hands low in range, and that's just stupid.

7) Neither fighter used an effective lead. I think I saw one good jab in the entire fight. Against better opposition either of them would be toast with their wide punches and kicks.

8) Both of these guys help us explain why MMA is so popular. When the clinch happens, as it does so frequently in boxing, kickboxing, and even TKD, it becomes boring for spectators. MMA starts at that point, in my opinion. It forces action, instead of being a delaying tactic.

9) The spinning backfist should be used more. Even without aiming, it's a force to be reckoned with - it has to be defended or you will get knocked out. It can be thrown blind and still be effective.

10) As Mr. Zimmer said so well, “I think that the style does not make as much difference as the fighter... from any discipline a good fighter can learn about other disciplines and overcome stylistic differences.” Well said. I’ll leave it at that!


John W. Zimmer said...

Hi Nathan,

I think that the style does not make as much difference as the fighter... from any discipline a good fighter can learn about other disciplines and overcome stylistic differences.

As for this fight - the TKD guy did not cover his head very well but had some good kicks.

Worg said...

The boxer threw too many sacrifice techniques. If he'd dropped like that on the street he'd be fucked. Of course, this wasn't the street.

Anonymous said...

Except for the spinning kicks of the TKD fighter there didn't seem to be much of a style difference. The kickboxer was going for more spinning backfists but that's definitely a personal preference and not a style difference.

Anonymous said...

The kickboxer is genki sudo, who is unorthodox kickboxer to say the least. He has a background in submission wrestling, at which he is truely icnredible, search for him on you tube and you'll see some incredible footage.

He's not the best example for a comparison with TKD, however your analysis of the fight is not dependent on the fighters style as such. And you make some useful points

Nathan at TDA Training said...

epicmartialarts, I had no idea that was sudo. I have seen some clips, and he is amazing on the ground.

Thanks for the comments and for reading the blog.

Anonymous said...

This was a rather poor fight: for one combo's were poor on both sides, fighters who cannot even maintain a proper guard get no respect from me and there was too much clinching. I don't get why that kickboxer didn't use lowkicks more and stuck to his opponent negating the advantage the taekwondoka has in that range. I don't get why you get to call yourself 'kickboxer' when it's clear you suck at boxing, his kicks were good but way too flashy. Honestly: every kick or thaiboxing instructor worth his salt will teach you to mix kicks up with punches, preferable 1 to 3 or 4. I've seen little of that here. This is amateur level at best and I don't know if there are valid lessons to be learned as to the advantages and disadvantages of the respective styles.

Nathan Teodoro said...

Sloppy, to be sure, but examples of this type of fight (style vs style) with excellent participants are hard to come by. I agree on the low kicks, by the way.

As to the clinching, that was a common tactic in TKD sport fighting, and is good for negating the infighting strengths of another fighter (as long as there's no ground fighting or takedowns allowed).

As to the lessons learned, you've actually highlighted some yourself, as I did, though not as to the stereotypical comparisons of the respective arts - I agree. Thanks.