Is There Value in Traditional Training?

Our post, Is your traditional training going to get you killed? seems to have elicited some interesting responses here, and at the Convocation. For a refresher on my heretical thoughts:

I think that I'm qualified to state that most traditional training in the US consists of:

• Kicks and punches only - some have traditional weapons forms, and have added grappling or MMA as a sideline to increase their relevance and revenue
• Classes of 45 minutes to 90 minutes long, two to three times a week
• Techniques performed in the air (no contact) or on pads
• Most schools have students remove their shoes and practice in loose-fitting, comfortable uniforms
• Forms (poomse or kata) being a large part of the focus and time spent
• Sparring with light to medium contact, and with restrictive rules for safety

I believe that most modern traditional schools (an intentionally paradoxical statement) do not prepare students for real self-defense, but to get hurt.

The issue, I think, is that the art itself isn't being taught in a "traditional" way - I'm defining the tradition of all of these arts as being a means to self-improvement, (sometimes) self-discovery, but most importantly, defending against aggression. Indeed, these arts wouldn't have any credibility were it not for the baser, effective aspects of their roots and founders.

In summary, I think that most schools are non-traditional, if not McDojos.

The goals which a mom and dad with a seven and nine year-old pair of kids is not to teach them to survive a knife-wielding maniac, but to get better grades and learn discipline. Are those school accomplishing that? Probably. The issue, to me, is that those same schools try to teach that same curriculum to adults, and award black belts in... what?

What I think is being missed here is that there is a difference between the style itself, and the training methods that the style uses, or (especially) the training method and curriculum a particular school uses. I know many traditional stylists who are tougher than nails. It depends on the focus of the training, akin to a "Karate-jutsu" versus "Karate-do" approach to training.

In defense of true traditional training:

Rick Fryer:

I’d like to describe some of the advantages to traditional training.

- Emphasize proper body mechanics
- Drill muscle memory through consistent repetition
- Build speed, power, and accuracy into the practice of techniques
- Improve the coordination and balance needed for self-defense
- Utilize underlying combat principles and strategies (two-way action, complex torque, variable pressure, redundancy, etc.)
- Instruct in the proper use of vital and/or pressure points
- Develop the muscle structure and flexibility needed for effective self-defense
- Allow students to practice dangerous techniques in a reasonably safe manner.

John Zimmer

Formal karate in its day may have been used on the streets, but now a day (just as boxers of old had to learn) fighting has changed.

I think there is value in learning the low-horse stances, punching and kicking drills, katas as well as the stylized rules in each sporting event. But I would argue that has and has always had little to do with fighting.

In my hey-day I was a point tournament fighter that had modest success in So-Cal. The fact that my punches and kicks striking points and force were limited did not impair my ability to fight in a bar as a bouncer for a couple of years at a bar. The two types of fighting actually complemented each other (I also have not been hit in a real fight because of my understanding of critical distance) because in the real fights I could do what I wanted to in the sport matches (and I did not get disqualified for excessive contact). :)

Anyway I would also like to say that real fights happen when you are sick, injured, drunk or otherwise at a disadvantage... the fact that you don't often train that way should not preclude you from surmounting any obstacles during the real deal.

Agreed. Rick's points of the positive advantages of truly traditional training are spot-on. John Zimmer's experiences show that the techniques themselves are effective - it's how they're taught. The Marine Corps Martial Arts Program and Krav Maga are both based on traditional styles like Karate, Juijitsu (and it's Brazilian variant), Arnis, and other traditional arts, and have both been proven extremely effective and have been taught in a short amount of time. With years of experience in the right type of training, some traditional martial artists may be the deadliest yet gentlest you may hope to meet.

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